Seriously Catherine – Juggling Motherhood with Jenny O’Keefe | Episode 21 – Palette
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Seriously Catherine – Juggling Motherhood with Jenny O’Keefe | Episode 21

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Mothering six children, aged 4 to 17, managing your marriage, choosing to be sober, while simultaneously navigating the realm of homeschooling and coordinating ALL the activities may seem like an overwhelming feat. Jenny O’Keefe shares the motivation behind launching the Mamatoga blog, its evolution into Mini City Magazine, and the journey that accompanied its development.

Discover Jenny’s go-to shopping sanctuaries, including the ever-reliable Trader Joe’s, the health-conscious haven of Healthy Living, and the versatile retail haven that is Target. Amidst the chaos of a bustling household, Jenny reveals her strategies for maintaining a semblance of sanity and offers insights on how to combat the sense of isolation that often accompanies the motherhood journey.

Embracing a departure from her small family roots, Jenny reflects on her unconventional path with no regrets. Her story serves as an empowering source of encouragement and inspiration, urging mothers to navigate the challenges of parenting, focus on the positives, and strive for personal growth in the beautiful chaos of life.

Check out Jenny’s website.

Follow her on Instagram.

Visit Mini City Magazine online.

HOT TAKES: CBS Renewed Young & The Restless – It remains #1 daytime drama for 36 years running!! Victor Newman won’t quit.

SARATOGA: Wedding vendors you MUST know about in Saratoga Springs, NY!

FACE PALM MOM: Handing off a crying baby to a stranger on a plane…. yup, it happened. Hear the hilarious story.

Don’t forget to check out Saratoga Living’s After Hours for what’s new and happening in Saratoga!

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*This Transcript is Autogenerated*

Jenny O’Keefe 0:02
it whatever you’re choosing to do, someone will tell you you’re doing the wrong thing. Yeah. So that’s a given and I think going into motherhood that’s, that would be my advice to moms that someone’s always gonna criticize you for whatever choice you make. You’re definitely damned if you damned if you don’t with motherhood

Catherine Hover 0:27
Welcome to seriously Catherine a podcast about taking your business seriously, but not yourself. Alright guys, my heartache this week is all about the young and the restless. Okay, so growing up my mom watched the young and the restless. It was on any day we had off a school shooting school teachers that he had off of school we had off of school, it was always on it was like don’t talk to the woman while she’s folding clothes and watching young and the restless is just like a staple in our house. Growing up. It was just announced that CBS has renewed the young and the restless through the 2027 2028 season Young and the Restless remains the number one daytime drama for 36 years running. It’s also CBS is longest running series, and this renewal will bring the daytime drama through its 55th season. I mean, I think it’s remarkable in this day and age that this show is still being watched being paid attention to and most importantly, I think the most fascinating aspect of all this is that Victor Numen is still going well we all know here like I like the older guy that Harrison Ford the Kevin Costner. Okay, back to Victor Newman. The longest running cast members are melody Thomas Scott and Eric Braden, who portrayed Nicki and Victor Newman, and they joined in February 1979 And February 1980. This makes them the two of the longest tenured actors in American soap operas. I mean, it’s incredible. I can’t even say I’ve watched the show because I have not watched the show probably since I had to watch it when I was growing up. It’s safe to say that Victor’s been divorced and married to Nicky good least a dozen times. I mean, the storylines must be so warped how do you continue to add more to the story is so ridiculous. Anyway, if you’ve ever met somebody that watches young in the restless, you better not disrespect because they are intense. Most of the people who watch young, the restless, are older, they don’t know technology and streaming devices. So it’s like, this is what is on they’re watching what comes on. They’re watching the prices right followed by Young and the Restless, followed by the bold and beautiful and then you got the view. And so this is how they’re keeping up on the times and they’re just like, they’re they’re quick as whip now I will have to fact check this with my sister in law because my grandmother in law back in the day she used to watch young, the restless and she I swear to you, I think it kept her mind sharp because she like knew all the storylines and she knew who was sleeping with who and who was, you know, who died who died in a car accident, like all the things she knew. And I just think like I’m a fan of young and the restless. I support this renewal of their contract and I think that they’ll probably renewed again because it what world would we live in? If there was no young and the restless? That’s my heartache.

Hi, guys, I’m so excited about this week’s episode of seriously Catherine I’m joined by my friend Jenny witty and she’s formerly known as mama toga, the very first mommy blogger in Saratoga Springs, and she’s a mother of six kids. She does it all somehow. And I’m just so excited to have her here to share her stories of motherhood and marriage and everything in between.

Let’s get to it. Okay, so a little bit of background so obviously we met right when you were launching mama toga, which was a very, very mutual still have mama token, right? You rebrand? I

Jenny O’Keefe 3:48
don’t I don’t have it anymore. I mean, I still have the email and the domain, because so many people remember that email and use that email. And then I find myself sending new emails from it. I’m like, Ah, but yes. And people will still say to me, like, are you mama toga? I’m like I am. Yeah. But it’s been like seven years, I think. Yeah. Since I switched it to mini city. Yeah. But people do still say it.

Catherine Hover 4:09
So tell us more about like, how you started that why you started it? Because I do feel like that was when you were like on the scene.

Jenny O’Keefe 4:16
Yeah. So I started it when I was pregnant with Jack who’s 12. Now I have my two older kids that were preschool age at the time. I felt like Saratoga has so many events to offer. And so many preschools, there’s so many kids and family events, but I felt like I was missing them all the time. Like I’d hear about it afterward, or Victorian street Walk is a perfect example. Because I was like that sounds great. But can I bring my kids to it was the Street closed off and I felt like I could not find all this information and also like even restaurants and shops like it was hard to find that information. It seems crazy because nowadays everything is online, but 12 years ago, it was different. It was like all we had was Facebook It’s true. That’s true. And so I felt like I was missing everything. And I wanted to do a website that highlighted local events and let people know ahead of time so you could plan and local preschools because I started the kids at the Saratoga regional YMCA, which coincidentally Shep who’s my youngest goes to the same preschool that Finn went to when Finn was his age. So I’m like, I’ve been here for 15 years, but I was like, I only know this preschool. I only know these moms, I don’t know any of the other preschools, there’s all these other moms and preschools. And so I wanted to start it as a way to share all of the relevant mom’s stuff just for this area. Specifically, I want to find Saratoga specific stuff. And so I came up with the name mama toga and

Catherine Hover 5:42
brilliant and went from there. Did you ever buy Papa toga?

Jenny O’Keefe 5:45
I might have.

Catherine Hover 5:47
I think you did. But because I remember the first time I met you, is that like a magnet? Like because you were onto the magazine at that point, and you have sort of like launch party? Yeah. Where was that? It was that somewhere in like meat on Maple. Ave. Can you remember this ago? I

Jenny O’Keefe 5:59
think the one the first one I did myself. I think the launch party was at Boca Bistro. Okay, because that actually just popped up in my Timehop memories. Because Heather. I of course, like, honestly, I Timehop is like the best and worst part of my day. Because you’re like, look at this photo. It’s so great. But at the same time, it’s like so you’re like they’re so big now.

Catherine Hover 6:22
I know. But I so do you don’t have Facebook memories that comes up? Because that’s No, I know, I’ve got all of them. You got it all

Jenny O’Keefe 6:27
the man. I’m like, flood me with memories. I don’t care how emotional it makes me. But so Heather’s daughter and her husband and her son, their son, they were on the cover of the first issue that I did myself.

Catherine Hover 6:37
Yeah. Mama toga maggot. Yes. Yeah. And I want to say that was 11 years ago. Well, yeah, it was crazy. It’s, it’s crazy. It was a rat. It was like, around the same time that that paint and sip open, because I remember thinking like, I gotta get this mama to get to come to paint and sip and experience it and tell people about it, I still tell the story how like, that was the fire catching, because people did go to your website, too, especially if they just moved to the area. If they needed something fun to do, it was very clear your perspective was so spot on. Like just your writing style was great. You know, people who read it felt like they knew you. Now I’ll never forget this story. This is years later, we were going to Northshire bookstore and we were at some sort of play event you must have posted about it, you must have shared that this is what you were going to do. And we were going whatever. And these two adorable ladies who are clearly from Asia, they, you know, had like these little gift bags in their hands and like you walked by, and they were like following you. And I’m like, Jenny, those women are here for you. And you’re like, No, they’re not. Like, I remember that. I’m like, I swear to God, they came to this event to see you like you have to go talk to them. And you did. And turns out they had relocated here for Global Foundries. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, remember? No. And your website was such a beacon of information and light and guidance. And it was just like, so eye opening to me that like, Oh, my God, people are reading what you’re putting out there. And they’re like, it’s like a Bible to them. Yeah,

Jenny O’Keefe 7:59
having that kind of feedback was so great. Because my exact intention for it in order to share community stuff with the community, and then have people say, I found this through your website. I was like, great. So it’s working. And it’s always nice to meet people, when they say, Oh, I read your website, and people will say like, is it awkward that I know who you are, but we’ve never met? I’m like, Absolutely not. That’s what I’m trying to do. That is absolutely my purpose in doing it. So yeah,

Catherine Hover 8:23
I mean, do you have any other sort of like stories or insights into like, you know, the impact you’ve made? Um,

Jenny O’Keefe 8:28
I mean, off the top of my head, I would say that, so when I did my Matoba, part of the reason why I split it off into mini city, was because I shared so much personal stuff, and local stuff. And I think that probably the biggest impacts, I felt were when I would share personal stories, a bunch of times, I shared stories about postpartum depression. And going through that, and sort of the one piece I had explained how I had reached out to my doctor, and this wasn’t a local doctor at the time. This is before I moved here, when I had my oldest daughter, they said, Well, we’re just going to prescribe you something over the phone, get it filled, you’ll be good. And I remember being like, that’s it. We’re not going to talk, I can’t talk to a person, I only talk to a receptionist and like I said, this wasn’t a local doctor, but and I wrote about that. And I had so many women that emailed me and said, I’m so glad you shared that experience, because I feel like this is what I’m going through. And I feel like I’m put in a place more where I can be an advocate for myself and speak up and say, No, I need to speak to a person. And I’m not going to speak to a person or I’m not going to seen by a person I need to go to different practice because I need to advocate for my own well being and there was a lot of connections made where I would write something and someone would email me directly and we would have conversations. I mean, there’s so many people that I’ve had conversations with that I’ve never met in person based on something I’ve shared either if it’s Instagram or It’s something that I’ve shared on the website, it reminds me of, when I first became a mom, it can be such a lonely place, and be able to make those connections with people. And sometimes it even if you have a little mom group, sometimes it can be hard to break in with, okay, I have this problem, or I’m having this question. And so reaching out to somebody, even if they’re a stranger can make that connection for you and me. Yeah, different.

Catherine Hover 10:22
Yeah. Yeah. Because I also think it’s just sort of like timing to like, who you sort of get connected with? Yeah, in that moment, you know, not not those people may not even have the solution for you, or that shared experience. But you’re just like, those are all people that, you know, yeah. They just happen to be

Jenny O’Keefe 10:37
your group. Yeah. So for better or worse, sometimes it’s like, then if you’re reading something, and you’re like, okay, this person is in my neighborhood. They’re in my, my, our kids go to school in the same school district. It makes it more like I am, you know, a mom and your school. Someone I’m someone you can talk to, even if we don’t know each other in person. Yeah. I had a lot of conversations like that. That always very nice. Yeah.

Catherine Hover 10:59
So you went from again, from what I can remember, you went from like mama toga, you did you did the magazine. I said, we engaged and invested. But you review the magazine, and then you kind of switched things to mini city. And that’s when you started doing just Jenny O’Keefe dot com? Yes.

Jenny O’Keefe 11:16
So I switched things because I share a lot of personal stuff. And it just evolved that way, in a natural way. But then I found that as I got more sponsors and advertisers for the site, I really wanted to separate the hyperlocal stuff into its own and keep the personal stuff as its own thing. And at the same time, I have basically phased out like the blogging part of it. Because, again, that was years ago, when there was more of a blog presence. I feel like with that sort of thing, like the mommy blogger thing, I mainly just mini city has its own website, and the magazine and Instagram, and then I have my own Instagram that I share parenting trials and tribulation. Yeah, and whatever you want to call it. Yeah,

Catherine Hover 12:01
no, I love it. I mean, I feel like you make it look very easy to have a big family,

Jenny O’Keefe 12:05
I hope I don’t make it look too easy, because it’s not I’ve tried to I try to keep it realistic. You know, I feel like, obviously, social media is everyone’s highlight reel. And I do try to keep things realistic, as much as possible. And that being said, everything I share is authentic, though, you know, I do try to share things that are I mean, I keep saying realistic, but I’m trying to think of a different word for realistic, authentic and it’s happening. One thing I try to share with people and I’ve been trying to share more of is, and it’s funny, because I say to myself, I don’t I really don’t have the time is that people ask me all the time, like you said, like having a big family, how do you balance everything? And my answer is always I don’t, I don’t balance everything. I’m not expecting myself to balance everything. And people say, you know, how do you do at all and I say, I don’t have a personal life. I really don’t right now have much of a personal life. And I will I have before, you know, like we had book club and everything and go out to dinner and all that stuff. It basically because of COVID a lot of that changed. And then I had another baby. And there are things that fall by the wayside. And then there’s things that come back into your life at different times. But having six kids that are all in school right now at the same time, and having a personal life and having a job and all the other things that go along with being human being I tell people all the time. I’m like, It’s not I don’t have everything all at once. Yeah,

Catherine Hover 13:29
I mean, I think that your house is not always clean. I’m not saying Yeah, but I’m saying. Yeah, well, it’s also just like logistic goalie. Yeah, challenging when you have older kids and younger kids and they’re in activities, like we just went to suppose isn’t the Girl Scouts. I’m the Girl Scout troop leader, really only because I provide the space for the girls to meet in on a monthly basis. That was like my contribution. That’s a huge contribution, though. Yeah. So you know, it’s winter break, and we’re not going anywhere. We don’t have any plans to go out of town. So it’s like, okay, what am I gonna do with these kids? Well, luckily, girlscouts plan, like they rented the ice rink for two hours on Wednesday, but I went there and one of the other moms, you know, she’s got three kids, but like, they’re in everything. They’re in hockey, they’re in field hockey, they’re in softball, they’re in Girl Scouts. They’re unlike and I’m like, I can’t wrap my head around doing that. And even like, Posey wants to start swimming, and I’m like, How are we gonna fit that in? I mean, swimming is a lot. You already do soccer like I was do both. And then I was so sort of like watching I was having like a crisis a little bit when I’m like watching her and Ruby got to come along because she’s a sibling, but I’m like, sitting there watching her and she’s got like one of those like, it almost looks like a walker like yeah, we’re like plastic Walker with handles. Yeah. So anyway, I’m like, do I need to invest in lessons for these girls to learn how to properly ice skate? Because like, what if that’s their thing? Yeah. I was having like, honestly, I’m like thinking myself. What am I not doing? Or like, is there something else I should be investing in for these girls to like, have another skill it’ll set you know, like they’re doing snow skiing and then I was like beating myself it’s never enough. You know, like how do you know what’s gonna click and I thought about you actually because Jack your middle one

Jenny O’Keefe 15:09
he’s one of my middles yeah I call it my big my big he’s my middles and my littles. Yeah,

Catherine Hover 15:14
so React is is 12 Yes. And he’s one of your middles. Yep. And he is like, basically a pro snowboarder. Yeah, well, not professional yet, but he’s, he’s not old enough. But he’s like the LSAT is there. I mean, if you’ve ever seen a video of this kid, it’s it’s incredible. He’s like flipping. Yep, yeah. So how did you know that like this is going to be his path. For

Jenny O’Keefe 15:37
Jack. Basically, my husband snowboards my two older kids snowboard. And then Jack was like, That looks cool. And so he started going with them. And we just noticed that he was really good at it and loved it. And it just developed from there. I mean, like you said, it’s basically giving them the opportunity. If they’re like, I like doing this. I want to try it. Go ahead. I tell people all the time. It’s like sign up for a session and make the commitment for one session. And if they love it, then do another one. If they hate it, move on to something else. Yeah. And they can try everything. But like

Catherine Hover 16:10
each of your kids has got a different thing that they’re like excelling at, you know, so I feel like Finn’s lacrosse. Yep.

Jenny O’Keefe 16:16
Ben plays lacrosse and, and he drives now, which is amazing. Because lacrosse at one point was started after school, and then went to like six o’clock every day. And then they have a game on the weekends. I was like, This is so much driving. But then when they start to have friends that drive you’re like, Okay, this is great, because there’s no bus that takes them home after practice at schools. And you’re like, why? And then lovey though, that’s the ballet, which is really another eight is not a very intense, intense, yes. And it’s all it’s like 45 minutes away. And then when she’s doing Nutcracker, she’s there six days a week and Jack during the season snowboards almost every day.

Catherine Hover 16:55
And so you basically just like don’t see them. I mean, yeah, I

Jenny O’Keefe 16:58
see lovey a lot, because I’m the one who drives the ballet. Yeah. And Jack gets home early enough from snowboarding because they go really early and ends early. So I do see them. But yeah, it is a lot of stuff. But like with lovey with anything when they get a little bit older, like love, I used to ride horses also. But I’m like, you gotta pick one. Yeah, because you can’t do both. But she was ballet, you get to a point where if you’re going to be on point, you have to take a certain number of classes because your feet and blah, blah, blah. And so you’d have to make the commitment to that one thing. And I’m like, so commit and try it for this session. And if you want to continue doing that, then you can so it kind of cancels out extra stuff. Yeah, but there was a time where she was doing like three things at once. I was like, let’s focus in on something. Yeah, yeah. happened to be ballet. Yeah.

Catherine Hover 17:41
Okay, so I guess we’re just not there yet. So Posey, she’s in that stage of like, trying things. She’s doing the I just know, I keep. I always have to say like, I know. Skiing. snow skiing, because in my head when I think squatters um, yeah, it’s like it’s ingrained to think waterskiing and we don’t ever have to say, waterskiing, we just say skiing but here are you only

Jenny O’Keefe 18:02
say skiing down there? Yeah. Oh my gosh, that’s so funny. Because up here when you said snow skiing

Catherine Hover 18:09
like okay, yes, she’s not from around here. But I mean, I am now I’ve been Yeah. 12 years. So when do you become a

Jenny O’Keefe 18:16
local I guess when you stop saying snow skiing?

Catherine Hover 18:20
I growing up I She’s not gonna like that. I’m saying this. But my mom let me quit everything. Like she just let me quit stuff whenever I would just be like, I’m not doing any more. I didn’t stick with dance. I didn’t stick with cabbage ball is what we had. It’s like it is looks like a cabbage. And it’s a ball. It’s like a softball. And you don’t have a glove or anything. You just play with your hands. Anyway, I quit that did gymnastics tumbling quit that. Like she I don’t know. I’m sure I was a difficult child. Maybe she just didn’t want to put up with it. Because I can definitely see that. Like, I would just like dig my heels in. And so that has made me the type of parent that says like, No, we’re not quitting. We’re gonna go to every little thing. We signed up for this. You want to do this. It costs money. It takes time energy to get you to where you need to go, and we’re not quitting. But actually Posey did one season of softball didn’t like it quit. She just told me this morning. She doesn’t want to do skiing, snow skiing. She so I’m like, You know what, what is this? Like? I just she hasn’t found your thing. Or there’s so many things that can wrap it up, right? Like it’s a bad coach, or she didn’t get along with the teammate. Yeah, you know what I’m saying? And did you did you have an experience with that with Jack? Is that like, why Shawn just started training him himself. Right?

Jenny O’Keefe 19:29
So technically, no, because I’ll nutshell it for you. Like where Jack rides in Vermont. You either have to be part of a team or a school that rides at that mountain. There are no private coaches. They’re just not allowed because they want you to either do coaching through their ski school or belong to one of the schools or academies that rides at the mountain. And so since Jack and John are father and son, it works out I say that John and his is his coach, but we obviously don’t pay him or it doesn’t. So works out really well. But basically the way that Jack learns and the way that Jack responds to coaching is one on one is works for him better than being in a group. And so that works for now could change in the future. Yeah, like Jack did like football. And he’s a little quiet, but he’s very outgoing when you get to know him, but he didn’t really connect with kids on the team. But I said, we’re going to finish this out. You made a commitment. You’re on a team. And so the team needs you. Because they don’t have enough kids to play if you don’t play anymore. And I do the same thing. I’m like, I paid the money for this. Yeah. So let’s just finish it out. If you don’t like it, then that that’s what you can look forward to saying I don’t like it. I don’t want to do it again. Yeah.

Catherine Hover 20:37
You know what you don’t like? Yeah,

Jenny O’Keefe 20:38
it’s I mean, it’s only happened a few times with us. Oh, like Talley played lacrosse. And because she everyone was like, play lacrosse in the spring, because lacrosse is like spring field hockey. And she did. And she was like, I do not like that. And I’m like, that’s fine. You don’t have to do it again. It’s totally fine. We’re not going to do it again. I don’t feel like paying for something you don’t want to do. Right? Right. And I don’t want to go every weekend to watch you do something you don’t want to do. Yeah. But we did finish it out. Again. It was a team sport. So it was easy to say you made a commitment. They needed a certain number of players. Just be there for the team that you said you would be part of. And then after that, we’ll peace out.

Catherine Hover 21:12
Yeah, I mean, I also think that in the northeast, there’s just like different activities. Like we didn’t have the cross growing up. We didn’t have field hockey growing up. I mean, if we did, we didn’t play that it was like baseball, football, dance. Yeah. So it’s gonna be fun. I think as the years go on, the kids get older, we’re gonna have to figure it out. And it’s also fun to sort of like, see your kid out there excelling at something like it’s gonna be incredible to watch Jack do these flips and shit. He’s gonna be a pro person, right?

Jenny O’Keefe 21:37
That’s that person goal, who it’s definitely his goal. He won nationals two years in a row. And then this year, he decided to go on tour with the snowboarding company that sponsors him instead. It’s very exciting. It’s definitely not something I would have expected to do. I never expected to homeschool anybody that was not my jam. I was not not looking into homeschooling at all. So it’s like, I find myself being a homeschooling parent with a kid that does something that is kind of different. And we just sort of go with the flow.

Catherine Hover 22:08
Well, I remember you were like the first sort of like homeschool parent that I knew that wasn’t in that stereotypical, you know, when you think of a homeschooling kid, you’re like,

Jenny O’Keefe 22:18
I know, everyone has heard home stereotypes of homeschoolers. And I have to admit, I definitely probably felt the same way about homeschooling. And that’s where I was like, this isn’t for me, and I love putting them on the bus and they’ve got friends, and you know, stimulation, and everything was great. And the rest of my kids go to school. And this is something I talked about a lot on Instagram Jack, when he was in first grade, he had some difficulty. And it wasn’t the best year it wasn’t the best experience. It was COVID No, this was right before COVID. Okay, and I actually I remember going in a meeting with the teacher, and in my mind, and I think I said it out loud, too. I was like, I don’t need this, he doesn’t need this. I’m gonna pull him out of school, and he’s gonna snowboard and I’ll just homeschool them. And even as I said it, I remember being like, I can’t homeschool. I’m like, I don’t know what I’m doing. And then when COVID did start, where I’m just going to homeschool your jack, I’m not doing this log on to 25 apps, I’m like, let’s just make the break now. And then you’re not gonna go back. And he was totally fine with that. And it worked out great for him. The other kids would not want to be homeschooled. And I wouldn’t want to homeschool them. So it works out well. And that being said, we’re not I’m not a traditional homeschooler anyway, I started in second grade. You know, I never taught anybody how to read, like all the hard stuff. Like they kind of came to me knowing a lot of stuff already. Yeah, so we had a really good foundation. Like I could not imagine teaching a kid how to read I probably could if I tried and Google did a lot and had a lot of support. But he he was he already knew how to do the basics.

Catherine Hover 23:45
Yeah, yeah, but and also like homeschooling is all the rage now like there. I think after COVID There’s a lot of people who were just like, you know, we’re not going to deal with this shit. And we’re taking our kids out, homeschool them it has been sort of become very political, but I think just from just the convenience aspect of it, like touring COVID was a bitch. And luckily, I just had Posey during kindergarten and she was in kindergarten right. And homeschooling I was like, why are we doing? Yeah, yeah, I’m like, well, it’s Shabbat. So yeah, we lucked out. I was basically like, she’s pretty much not showing up for the rest of the garden because this isn’t working. Oh, we’ll try it tomorrow. Yeah, and she was fine. I mean, first grade was like that hybrid weird. Yeah, we’re in school. I can’t even remember I think I’m so trauma. No, they were in school. They were in school. They had to wear masks. Yeah. So I think a lot of them were hybrid. Alright happened. Right? So we lucked out. And there were a lot of parents were like, You know what, we’re not masking we’re not doing this. Yeah, there was a lot of testing for every time I’m gonna get sick. So we’re pulling my kids our kids out and we’re gonna homeschool them and now it’s like such a huge thing. You know, my mom when she retired from teaching, but she went back to teach at a homeschool school. Oh, which is like, it’s it is exactly what it sounds like. They are doing the homeschool curriculum, but it’s at a building you know, I’m saying it’s A woman opened up her own homeschool school. There’s so

Jenny O’Keefe 25:02
many different hybrids of it now like my sister in law homeschools, but they’re part of a homeschool collective. And there’s a bunch of families and then they take turns going to different activities that are outside the home and their setup for this homeschool collective. So there’s so many different ways to do it. I like to tell people also like I said, we’re not traditional homeschoolers, I use the term out school very loosely, because there’s obviously when Jack is training and he’s snowboarding every day. They’re like, Well, how do you fit in two hours, three hours of school and like we don’t, we doesn’t happen every day. It all gets worked out. But it doesn’t happen every single day. And he’s not sitting down at a desk in our house. All the things I thought about homeschooling were definitely completely false. I mean, there’s definitely a lot of the stuff that is true, like Jack and I do little projects together, there is a lot of the making sure he’s doing X, Y, and Z, but it’s not okay, come sit down at the table. And we’re gonna do this hours of work every single day. It’s it’s much looser structure during the season. So people always ask me, they’re like, I want to get my kid into snowboarding or skiing. What is the first step? And I always tell them, can they handle the cold? And if they can, then that’s number one. That is your biggest obstacle. If you can handle the cold, then you will enjoy it. You could enjoy skiing or snowboarding. Like I personally have not skied since Jack was younger because I’ve been pregnant or had a bee that I’ve been holding. And now I’m like, You know what, I’m just gonna be in the lodge.

Catherine Hover 26:32
Yeah, I’m good. You are just bringing like I’m flooding me with memories because I was so scared to have like this little baby and not know how to act or what to do with my kid. I would just tag along with you everywhere he brought us to being or sledding months back. Do you remember that? We both did. We broke in but there was like a back gate open and you were like, This is where we gotta go. Yeah. And we went through a back gate and we slid. It was awesome. We never saw anybody else. No one ever said

Jenny O’Keefe 26:59
no. I did not ask but yes, it was we slid right to the amphitheater. Yeah,

Catherine Hover 27:04
it was awesome. Another good spot that maybe people don’t like that. I’m saying this out loud, but is behind Adirondack trust on Church Street like it also is sort of like golf and Polo. I was gonna say is that their property? I don’t know who’s probably that’s like McGregor but they let everybody go there. Yeah, well, McGregor is too far away from me too far. So it’s like 20 minutes away. You

Jenny O’Keefe 27:27
know, I’m the same way because that’s where I live and I’m like downtown. I’m like, Are you serious? so easily 10 to 15 minutes ridiculous.

Catherine Hover 27:37
In other cities and regions are

Jenny O’Keefe 27:39
like go to Albany, Albany. That’s like a day trip. What do you mean all I do at the weather like there? I don’t even know

Catherine Hover 27:49
I pointed out the other way. I feel like Albany people don’t want to come to Saratoga. I’m willing to go to Albany I think it’s like if if I want to go to Albany, I might as well drive to the city.

Jenny O’Keefe 28:02
See, ya know exactly. You’re like I feel like I’m halfway there. No, you know what, what gets me to Albany is Trader Joe’s. Well, there’s

Catherine Hover 28:09
one in Clifton Park now that I know, I

Jenny O’Keefe 28:11
know. But if I’m like, well, if I’m going down there, right, right.

Catherine Hover 28:15
And I have not really embraced the Trader Joe’s what I’d know I know. I just

Jenny O’Keefe 28:21
you’ve never seen a Buzzfeed article. Like this V these 35 things from Trader Joe’s I think they’re all right all correct. It’s

Catherine Hover 28:28
like I haven’t experienced like I don’t know when I will brainwash

Jenny O’Keefe 28:32
you as you went in and then you’re good to go you don’t even worry about it just go one day and then you’ll be like oh my god, how have I not come here before

Catherine Hover 28:40
okay, this is like why I haven’t I mean Mark makes fun of me too because like i i will go to Price Chopper just because I know what everything is it’s very familiar to me looks like

Jenny O’Keefe 28:50
everyone has that feeling that you know where the aisles are? Yeah, and you know, every design the store you’re like, where am I?

Catherine Hover 28:57
Right right disoriented, but I just think I remember that even like coming moving here. I was like, Oh, this grocery store looks like a grocery store and you found

Jenny O’Keefe 29:05
a shopper and you’re getting in your prey shopper is market 32 by the way is that even my shopper anymore? I

Catherine Hover 29:12
still call it the ghetto chopper. Oh my god there’s Yeah, so there used to be a Price Chopper downtown. And this is before they turned it into like a nicer version of it but it used to be like this shady parking lot and a shady building I never went

Jenny O’Keefe 29:27
to that one because I was like I’m not gonna park downtown to go grocery shop I live in Wilton with target and stuff so yeah, I don’t need that.

Catherine Hover 29:33
Yeah, you’re you are definitely a target person. You’re not a Walmart person. I’m

Jenny O’Keefe 29:37
an everything person. No I got a lot though. I actually So believe it or not I never

Catherine Hover 29:43
doubted living or your healthy living for I am yeah. Are you was

Jenny O’Keefe 29:47
I know I still go on healthy living because I need my you know, vegan ice cream bars. I do target pickup a lot because it prevents me from buying stuff I don’t need Yeah, for the most part. And then the other day what I did target pickup he was like, okay, he’s like, your name comes up a lot. And I was like, I know, I know. And he’s like, I’m usually one to bring it out for you. I’m like, Well, I appreciate that. Because I don’t want to go in there. Because if I do, I’m gonna see all this stuff, and put a bunch of stuff in my cart. And when I do go when I go to the dollar spot, and I buy a bunch of stuff I do not need. Yeah, I haven’t gone grocery shopping with the kids in like, a long time, I will not do it. Okay,

Catherine Hover 30:25
so what are other things that you do to stay sort of sane, because it gives in that moment, I’m just like, I did this to myself, I did this to myself. I chose to have these children, I chose to bring them into this grocery store.

Jenny O’Keefe 30:36
I made a series of choices. Starting with having well

Catherine Hover 30:40
the judgment you get from people like some I mean, I’m certainly like, way less concerned what other people think. I mean, I’ve traveled by myself with the kids, like on planes like so sometimes I see something come up on social media, like, oh, somebody yelled at this woman on a plane or whatever. And I’m just like, oh, they they haven’t lived my life.

Jenny O’Keefe 30:57
Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel that on a deep level, because when I was a younger mom, it would happen a lot. Especially like, I feel like when you hit like three or four kids, then people want to be like, Well, those are yours. And you’re like, Yeah, I relish when I’m with all of the kids together in public, because I do see people being like, especially because I have a 17 year old and a four year old and they’re like, what’s happening here? And I’m like, these are all mine.

Catherine Hover 31:24
I love it. I mean, I know it’s again, you make it so attainable, attainable, yeah. Okay, this can be transferred to any sort of like goal that you have, right? Like, find the people who are doing those things actively. And you’re like, How’d you do that? And I’m like, give me give me a tip. And make me feel less alone. Because you know, I will. I mean, even when I’m like telling people, like if I’m like meeting somebody for the first time, they’re like, Oh, what do you do? What are you about? I’m like, Well, I have these three businesses. And I have a husband travels for work. And I have three kids, and I want more. And I want more businesses, I want more kids, I want more everything I want abundance and all the things I want to be like, fulfilled all the time. And they’re I just get bigger and bigger and bigger. And you’re like, you know what, I’m not crazy. You know what I’m saying? Like, I’m not going to be the one that is contributing to the decreasing birth rate, you know, I’m not going to be the one contributing to like our GDP going down because I’m, I’m hustling, and I’m working, and I’m doing all the stuff. So I think it’s important like for myself to just find the people who don’t think those ideas are crazy. They want to support you. They also want to see you succeed, quote, unquote, yeah, just like at least just be happy doing the things that you’re doing. Yeah,

Jenny O’Keefe 32:29
absolutely. I absolutely agree. I never planned on having six kids, but it works out perfectly. I think that everybody feels that way. Or I would hope that people feel that way. Not that everybody feels that way. But you know, people say, Well, I’ve known so many people who want you know, I want two kids. And that’s it. And if I only wanted two kids, and was okay with that, that’s great. Yeah, for whatever reason, I don’t even have a reason. I was like, let’s keep going. Let’s see where that

Catherine Hover 32:54
well if you if you can, and all as well, right, like, just why not?

Jenny O’Keefe 32:58
Yeah, I mean, it definitely, like I said, you know, circling back, like there’s a lot of sacrifices that are involved with having a lot of children. I didn’t grow up with a big family dynamic at all. And I don’t I don’t know what possessed me, quite frankly, to want to have a large family. But now looking at it, I obviously wouldn’t want it any different to

Catherine Hover 33:18
six kids between 17 oldest is 17. Youngest is four. Yes. And like how are you navigating that? Because I am very vocal about a lot of the challenge. A lot of the pushback and just like a lot of like, oh, that stuff. And they’re like, Oh, well, you have heard this before, like, Oh, we don’t blink or time goes by, oh, I

Jenny O’Keefe 33:36
definitely hear that. And I am so guilty of saying it because I have a 17 year old. And I’m like you were just for I have to say I don’t like when people want to spook parents about any stage. I don’t know why people want to do that. I think that sometimes when people are like I got through the newborn stage, so now I can tell people Oh, that was terrible. That was terrible. Like, it’s when you tell someone who’s going to have their baby like, well, you’re never going to sleep again. It’s like you absolutely will sleep again. It’s going to feel really long, but it’s not actually that long in the grand scheme of things. And you will get through it just like potty training that feels like forever but when you think about how long let tiny period of time of their lives, but it is it can be a difficult task, but I really I dislike when parents want to sort of freak out new parents or say like the teenager thing like we’ll just wait till they’re teenagers like they’re going to be terrible, horrible people. Instead of highlighting some of the things that can be great about teenagers I mean that just made it sound like you just are horrible which are not

Catherine Hover 34:38
it’s tough. The whole parenting thing is tough is it’s hard when you have parents who were like oh are you know and I was like maybe I’m maybe I’m gonna be really good at it not that they weren’t seen as it’s tough. I’m not gonna maybe I’ll be really, really good at it. And so it’s like hard to not to compare because I do get that a lot from from my mom will tell me Oh, I did such a horrible job with you, you know, you turned out so look at you now you’re such a piece of shit, you know, like sarcasm, right? Like, but I think as a parent, it’s gotta be hard seeing your kids, parent, you know, and thinking like, holy shit, they were just for, you know, I’m like, Okay, now they have these little people, and it’s just like, gotta be a Mind Blow. Well, and

Jenny O’Keefe 35:22
I think I think it’s true that I look back on different stages and think, Oh, that was hard. I don’t know if I’d want to do that. Again. I do tell people goes by fast. That’s absolutely true. Everybody listening that is rolling their eyes at me. You will listen to this podcast again in two years, and you’ll be like, Oh my God, they’re so big. Now that went by so fast. It is true. I like I said, having a 17 year old that’s a senior. I’m like, no, no, I’m in complete denial that that is even happening. And it just went by super fast. People always asked to what’s the hardest stage of parenting because I have one of everything. Now, I have a middle schooler of high schoolers. I’ve got girls, I’ve got boys. I got it. All. I’ve everything. And I’ve done all of it. I’ve done toddler to teenager, every single stage has its own difficulties. Every stage is hard. And every stage comes with its own great things and not so great things just like basically everything in life. Yeah. So to sort of want to scare someone off to be like, Wait till they’re teenagers, they’re going to be tears. It’s like, no, they’re going to develop into their own people. And you’re going to get to know them on a different level. And it’s going to be open up these new doors of parenting and open up new doors in them and you that you didn’t know you had before. And it’s a great experience. And it also is terrifying, because they’re driving cars on the road. And you’re like, what, like you are a baby? How do you have a driver’s license?

Catherine Hover 36:38
Yeah. So I think the Niki sort of challenge that creeps in and you don’t, I didn’t see it coming, was managing your marriage. Yeah, while you have all these kids. And I think it’s really, really easy to focus on the kids, like the both of you focus on the kids and like, let’s just get this kid, you know, to a point where he or she exists in life and as capable, like, we can be proud of that. And then you forget that, like, you gotta put time and effort and energy into this person. Yeah, you make the children with Yeah. And I think I don’t know, for me, it’s that has been just a total, a total curveball. I never saw examples of people in my life, like really working on their marriage. And that relationship. And my parents definitely argued out loud. Like, we weren’t aware of any chat, like we were aware of at all, like they had no filter, you know, but I think like, it’s, that’s that piece of it, it goes into raising a family as well, you know, and being on the same page of that person and making sure like, Okay, you’re on board with this, because this is happening. You know,

Jenny O’Keefe 37:38
I would agree to that, too. I would say it’s definitely a challenge. And I think that comes in line with the idea that I know, at least when I had kids, too, I felt like part of the reason why I felt like I was not doing a good job was that I expected to know what I was doing. And I don’t know why I expected that. Nothing really prepares you for having a child until you actually have it. And you’re not really presented with the idea of being like, oh, so I’m going to just learn how to do this while I’m doing this really super hard, very important job, which is raising a baby. And then you think every time like, well, they’re older now I should be better at being a parent, but you’re not realizing this, this child that was a baby is now a toddler and they have different needs. And so you’re learning all the time when you’re doing it. You’re never finished learning and the same thing with relationships. You know, your relationship was different before you have children, and it evolves and it changes and it requires that time and check ins and learning and changing also, for some reason, I feel like we have this expectation that you know, I’m a mom now I should know what I’m doing. You know, where there’s no reason there’s no I mean, there are plenty of parenting books, but there really is no reason that most people are prepared. Yeah. For being a parent. And they I think people need to give themselves a break to be like, yeah, you can learn all this as you go.

Catherine Hover 38:58
Was it during COVID that you start stopped drinking like it was one day you woke up? You’re like, I’m not going to drink anymore? And like when did Sean to Sean follow suit? Or this is after Sean stopped drinking? No. So we

Jenny O’Keefe 39:08
it’s been seven years. So what is what is that? That was long, man? Yes. So it was definitely was before COVID? I can’t remember the exact year. No, it was random. Because I was at my mom’s for New Year’s Eve. I stopped drinking on the most cliche day to stop drinking. But it was New Year’s Eve and I remember I had like a glass of champagne. And I think I had to like IPAs or something. And I woke up the next morning and I was hungover and I was like this is not worth being hungover. And the idea of like being around small children when you’re hungover is a nightmare. Yeah. And nobody wants to do that. And so I was like, You know what I felt like with each child, I had less and less tolerance for drinking because when I was in college, I it was like, I could drink and have no hangover anything but each time I had a child, it became worse and worse for being hungover and having Like a couple glasses of wine being hungover. And so I didn’t say I’m going to quit drinking, I was like, I’m going to take a break. And my husband and I are very competitive. And he was like, I am, too. And so I was like, well, that’s great. Because, to be honest, it does make it easier. So we took a break from drinking on New Year’s Day, whatever it was seven years ago. And we both just decided that it was easier and better to not drink anymore. And I never expected to fully stop drinking, but it has been great. And I don’t miss drinking, I think when I quit drinking in the time before that, like when my kids were younger, there was very much this culture of drinking around motherhood, being like, I mean, if you go into the liquor store right now, there are wines that say like mommy’s timeout, and like, break for mommy and mom juice. And I, you know, it’s a delicate subject, because I don’t want to, I don’t I’m not judgmental about people drinking at all, I choose not to, but I don’t, it’s not like I think everybody should choose not to, I do dislike the idea of pushing it to mom’s like, you need a break. And that break should be alcohol. I think that’s a very mixed message to send to people. And I think that obviously, there’s much many other ways that people can deal with the stresses of motherhood, and there’s definitely a lot of stresses, rather than maybe one of the stresses turning into a bigger stressor, and also sort of being like, in order to be in order to relax, you need this? Yeah, I think is is not a great message.

Catherine Hover 41:35
Well, it’s turning, it’s like, it’s like wine is turning into gummies. Right. So it’s like, it’s not really taboo to be high, when well, yeah, trying to, you know, come off of a stressful day, or just take the edge off. And I think like, it’s fine. Everything you got to do what you got to do to some in some capacities, it makes you a better mom, if you are doing something to kind of like make yourself feel okay. But yeah, I don’t know. I also don’t think for you wasn’t like you had, like, I don’t know, define drinking problem, but it wasn’t like, it wasn’t like you were going out dancing on tables and act like a crazy person. That’s

Jenny O’Keefe 42:09
why it’s is hard to explain. So that would be me when well, people always whenever you tell someone you don’t drink, and especially when you have six kids, they think you’re Mormon. Think that the time Yeah. Because my husband, they were just in in Utah. And that’s where like, you’re you don’t drink, you’re Mormon. And he was like, Well, no, but And so people automatically assume that if you have quit drinking, that means you had a problem with alcohol. And that of course, that’s true in many cases, but it is also true to be like, this doesn’t work for me anymore. So I’m not going to do it anymore. But like when I meet new people, and they find out oh, and drink, they’re like, Were you an alcoholic? And I’m like, I wasn’t but it just didn’t work for me. So it’s like no, you can’t you can stop doing something with it doesn’t have to be like an out you’re an alcoholic and you want to stop Yeah, can just be like I just don’t like it anymore. Yeah,

Catherine Hover 43:01
it’s also just like one of those things like you’re I feel like you’re damned if you do damned if you don’t you know, it just

Jenny O’Keefe 43:08
that’s like true for all motherhood things in general. I think we can cover everything that it’s like it whatever you’re choosing to do. Someone will tell you, you’re doing the wrong thing. Yeah. So that’s a given. And I think going into motherhood, that’s what that would be. My advice to moms is that someone’s always going to criticize you for whatever choice you make. If you choose to breastfeed, they’ll be like, well, you should be giving yourself a break. Give them a bottle. Why don’t you do both? And if you’re doing formula, they’re gonna say, why aren’t you breastfeeding? And if you homeschool them, they’re gonna say, why are you doing that? That’s crazy. And if you send them to school, someone’s gonna tell you, so someone is always going to be like, you’re you’re definitely damned if you do damned if you don’t with motherhood.

Catherine Hover 43:47
Yeah. And I think knowing that going in is really important. So figure out what you need to do for yourself to build your confidence to build that support system around yourself and to carry on because there’s really no other choice once you get into it. Yep, you gotta just keep going. Forward. Yeah. So to wrap this up, like thank you so much for being here. I’m so happy we got to. We need to do it more often. I think you need your own podcast.

Jenny O’Keefe 44:11
Oh my gosh, I don’t know what I would talk about. That’s what I said. What do you even

Catherine Hover 44:15
talk about so much? You have so much to pull from so much wisdom to bestow on you have to come back soon. Okay, awesome. All right. This week from Saratoga living after hours, they are covering nine local wedding vendors to consider for your big day in Saratoga Springs. Now, I have been married for 12 years now. I have been joking but not really joking because I’m dead serious about getting remarried, because I’m kind of like been going to a lot of second weddings and hearing about second weddings and showers and I feel I’m obligated and I’m deserving of another wedding. So I’m very highly interested in all the wedding stuff. So let’s let’s dig in. I feel like Saratoga living has covered weddings in the Adirondacks is beautiful. Follow the lake in the background and such. Okay love it the lodge okay the lodge at Schroon Lake. This is owned by the incredible and amazing Andrea Caruso Foley who is going to be a guest on my podcast very soon there’s a two level ballroom and what’s cool about the lodge is that your guests can stay at the lodge and get married at the lodge and you could have just like the whole thing just be there which is super exciting. It’s like a weekend slumber party with all your best friends. Number three I do is with a view this is at the Fort William Henry hotels newly renovated carriage house so I was just at the Fort William Henry hotel for the winter dreamscape thing that was so much fun. The kids loved it, and it’s so adorable you pull around and there’s this adorable carriage house and that’s where all the weddings are. It’s so cute. I love this place and we actually stayed the night there when we went and what’s so cool about these hotel rooms is there’s a tub in the hotel room it’s not in the bathroom, it’s like next to the bed. Love it all right, this is high on the list. I mean this is no surprise picture perfect at the a Delphi I mean, who hasn’t seen these quintessential beautiful images of brides and grooms in front of a Delphi. It’s beautiful and the ballroom is gorgeous. The rooms are really nice. I mean you’ve heard me talk about the Polaris suite that’s where I’d want to stay I wouldn’t want to stay in any other suite but the Polaris suite because there’s a hot tub what’s up with me in the hot tubs I like a good hot tub. The Delphi is top on my list. I it’s hard to narrow down there’s so many options for dress shopping. Lily of Saratoga, which is right downtown on Franklin Square. It’s adorable. We I actually always drive by there with the girls and we comment on the dresses. You know, there are some really beautiful windows and Saratoga Springs but they’re not all on Broadway. Lily’s not on Broadway. And she also just opened the owner, Laura Mullen just opened styled which is an offshoot of Lily and that is where you can go and get your bridesmaids dresses or your mother of the bride dresses or groom mother of the groom dresses and it’s just so cute. Oh, okay, so this is beyond the ballroom so if you want something a little more edgy, eclectic, you can go to the 408 which is the second floor of cantina on Broadway and I’ve been dying to have a party up there because it’s so much fun I’ve been to a party there the food is so great I’m who does like Mexican so this is for chic alternative to a traditional wedding venue I’m sure that you can incorporate the rooftop so we got to like talk about when this wedding will be because the rooftops only open you know when it’s nice out there’s a bar up there and you can like you know overlook and look down at the peasants on Broadway walking around. Sipping on a margarita maybe the 408 is where I will have my rehearsal dinner we’re gonna have to get our makeup done right so where better to go then the name says it all at make me fab and the owner Elaine Curtis This is right between DeAndre is and the pavilion hotel which is now apartments this is who did my makeup for the her life cover too. So they do a fabulous job. She’s awesome. I mean, you can’t screw your makeup up on that day. Don’t try to do it yourself. have a professional do it. Alright, next up the Mazoon way Mazoon hospitality has grown from a hometown catering company to a bona fide Capital Region wedding empire with an in house designer dozens of venues and yes a top notch catering arm that’s still going strong after more than 40 years the food is always great like if you go to an event in Saratoga in the capital region chances are very very very very high that Mazoon hospitality is making that food alright to wrap this up your very first stop and I guess my very first stop will be discover Saratoga surprisingly enough. They are not just about tourism and bringing events to Saratoga, but they are also wedding planners. Maybe you didn’t know this, but they have a complimentary concierge service, which includes venue recommendations, private tours assistance with reserving hotel blocks, assistance with transportation options and a 10% discount for wedding guests to use at more than 100 local businesses. So that’s our first stop, stop and check in with the team at discover Saratoga to get your whole wedding thing plan. So stay tuned because I am getting married again to the same version. I think he knows all right, this week’s facepalm mom moment is a blast from the past. Okay, so I recently remembered this thing that happened to me and I don’t know about you, but sometimes I think back to when I was like a new mom and I’m like, I cannot believe I did that and I was flying by myself with Posey she was six months old at the time. And this is a time when like, you know, they’re a little more active and you can’t just like nurse them to sleep through the plane ride or whatever. So thinking back of it now and it’s like it wasn’t that big of a deal. I was just traveling with one child now I travel with three children anyway, I remember like sort of when you’re waiting at the gate about to get on the plane and you’re like Okay, here we go. I’m going to nurse her I’m gonna make sure she’s like super sleepy and tired and you know, so that when we go to get on the plane, she’ll just like sleep that was like my strategy and I did notice these two older women who were like very New Orleans D like very Yadier. They were like, Yeah, being up a storm. So I get on the plane I sit down I’m sitting by the window because again, I’m thinking in my head like this is gonna be great. I’m gonna be like, just tucked into this window seat and I’m not gonna get up to use the bathroom. I’m not gonna get up to walk up and down the aisle. She just can be knocked out. I was like, super confident, and then we sat down and by the time the plane gets going, and she’s like waking up, okay, Posies like not not having it, she’s ready to go. So turns out I’m sitting next to like this very large older man, but completely unaware that I am now traveling with a kid that is not happy. It starts to become like a very miserable plane ride for myself and everyone around me I was out of pumped breast milk. I’m starting to like really panic kid is like not having it. And I’m starting to like really freak out. And I also feel very trapped. Like, do you know that feeling when you’re just like, oh my god, I can’t get up and move because this guy next to me is completely zonked out. Like he must have taken some sort of narcotic or something. He was like, completely passed out, like snoring and no awareness that I am freaking out and sweating. I can like feel panic, just thinking about how stressed that I was in this like, moment of isolation and claustrophobia. So this woman, she was like, three aisles ahead of me. She gets up and she turns around, she goes, Do you really take her? And I’m like, yeah, yeah, take her. So I literally handed a screaming child six month old child across three aisles to a stranger, who I did not know other than like, I knew for sure. Like I observed these women. I knew that they were like from New Orleans. I can hear their accent. I was like, Okay, it’s something in sudden was like, Yes, please, please take a peek within like, I would say 10 minutes, she was passed out. I like was able to like relax, take a deep breath. And then it said in I just gave a stranger, my child and she was ahead of me on the plane. So she didn’t get off the plane before me and then just take off with my freaking baby. I started to panic again, I’m just like, trying to like take a deep breath. And I even like sat up at one point like I’m trying to like look ahead and see like if she’s okay, and these women are not turning around. They’re just like looking down the baby. I’m so Okay, long story short, they stayed seated while I got up to like, get off the plane. And this little kid cherub baby just looking so peaceful and so adorable and angelic. And meanwhile, she was like a crazy psychopath. When I was holding her. It wasn’t a roller coaster of emotions. It was one of those moments where I’m just like, did I just give a stranger my baby? Yes, yes, I did. Whoever that woman is, thank God because and I even like when I was getting off the plane and I’m like walking off and I want to go grab the baby. There was somebody else was like, Wait, you don’t know the seminar? And I was like, No, I was desperate. I gave the stranger my baby. She like just rocked her to sleep, I guess. And she’s like, she was an angel. There was no problem, honey. darlin, anytime, you know, I remember my little girls was so little. I mean, it was just so cool. Right? But like, I don’t know any other human or mother that would, you know, just hand off a baby like that. That’s my facepalm mom moments this week. Thank you for listening to this podcast. And if you want to connect with me slide into my DMs on Instagram. My handle is Katherine hoever

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