Seriously Catherine – Team Dynamics and Divine Guidance: A Conversation with Kathleen McLean | Episode 12 – Palette
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Seriously Catherine – Team Dynamics and Divine Guidance: A Conversation with Kathleen McLean | Episode 12

From overcoming childhood abuse to navigating complex racial identities and confronting systemic racism, Kathleen McLean’s unwavering faith has been her guiding light. Drawing inspiration from the transformative book, ‘The Power of Focus’, Kathleen illuminates how aligning faith with team-building strategies can foster an environment of inclusivity, empowerment, and collective growth. Join us as we explore the intersection of faith, equity, and team dynamics, and discover the invaluable insights Kathleen offers for building stronger, more cohesive teams in today’s diverse workplaces.

Find The Power of Focus on Amazon.

Visit Kathleen’s website – The McLean Consulting Group

Check out Saratoga Living. Their winter issue is dropping this month!

Special Thanks to the Adelphi Hotel for being our Launch Partners!

⇩ Find Catherine ⇩


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*This Transcript is Autogenerated*

Kathleen McLean 0:00
I have to say, the reason is because of racism. I know that these women had jewelry parties I know that they had you know, Tupperware parties and all the things I was not invited or included. It was just a very interesting experience. And I was talking about it one day, and it almost brought tears to my eyes because I’m like, wow, I was not really included. I was somewhat accepted, but I wasn’t really included

Catherine Hover 0:36
Welcome to seriously Catherine, a podcast about taking your business seriously, but not yourself. So this week’s Hot take is all about the new year and New Year’s resolutions. I don’t know if you think you know me, but I am not a resolution person. I think that it’s like too much stress, too much expectation to put on yourself at the front end of the year to do all these things indefinitely. It’s just like, we always get to the end of the year and haven’t accomplished the things I like to the extent that I’m sure we thought we would. So I mean, this is just me talking from my own personal experience. So I don’t set new year’s resolutions. I do set intentions like I want this year to be a positive one I want to intentionally be more present with my family and my kids and my people who I enjoy spending time with but as far as resolutions go, Oh, no way no way Jose, like I am not going to set like a ridiculous resolution. Like I’m gonna go to the YMCA every week or whatever it is. It’s just it’s like set up to fail if I do that. So for my own state of mind I set intentions and I say No, hell no to resolutions. Okay, so if you know me, you know that I love what I do. And I’m a workaholic. So if I ever have a chance to get away, I can’t go too far away without my kids and without being so far away from work. The Delphi is my go to what’s really great about the Delphi is that it has everything you need. It’s right there on Broadway. It has a restaurant, it’s got the breakfast joint, it’s got it all and the room service is amazing. So last Christmas we did Christmas Day Night at the Delphi we booked the Polaris suite which is really special because it has a hot tub on the balcony. And the kids loved it. It was so much when we ordered room service and it was just like the most special thing and again, it’s got a Jacuzzi. I mean who doesn’t want to use a Jacuzzi at the Delphi if you don’t have the opportunity to stay at the Adelphia you can still go and hang out in their in their lobby or eat at their restaurants. The best sushi in town by far I believe is at the a Delphi you should get the rainbow roll you can thank me later it’s delicious it’s absolutely the bomb. If you are local and you need a night off or a night away don’t go too far go right there to be a Delphi book yourself or wrong have dinner there have breakfast in the morning and you’ll feel like a totally different person when you wake up. So this week from Saratoga living is actually from Capitol Region live and I don’t know if y’all know but Capital Region living and Saratoga living it’s like a split issue so you get to cover stories. So this winter issue of Capital Region living the cover is Don Andrews, who is the owner of upstate Canna Company, which was the first dispensary in the capital region. It’s in Schenectady. And what’s really awesome about this whole story is that he was super strategic about how he was going to open up his store and he started selling hemp and CBD first so he was like ready to go. As soon as he was allowed to open a dispensary and start selling cannabis. He was ready to go. So really exciting. I’ve never been there, but I know a person who has been and it’s really nice. And everyone that works there is like super knowledgeable about all the things. And you know, it’s really interesting how these dispensaries really can open your eyes open to different types of cannabis. Right. And I know we’ve had Christina Lopez doochie on the program before and she talks a lot about gummies. But there’s tinctures, there’s oils. There’s bought like lip balms now that you can get. So there are so many ways that you can consume responsibly and recreationally and you don’t need a medical card to go to this store. So it’s really cool right there in Schenectady. So go and check it out and also go read the article because I’m excited to hear about his story. On this week’s episode, I’m seriously Katherine and we are joined with my friend Kathleen McLean. Kathleen is a thought leader in equity team building and leadership. She’s a keynote speaker, facilitator, author and executive coach. More importantly, she’s my friend. She’s a mom. She’s a wife and she gets it done. So I’m so excited to have her on the show and let her share her wisdom with us on how she integrates being a business owner Being a mom, being a wife, these are all the things that I’m trying to get as right as possible. And with the Kathleen’s help, I think we might get there. Kathleen, you and my perspective are such an amazing role model. And you, for me have been a shining star and a guiding light in my life. I don’t know if you know this or not, but you seem to have it all worked out. And I know, none of us are perfect. And we’re all just, you know, we’re human, but you do an exceptional job of balancing your business and your career, and your spirituality and your marriage. And you’re a great mom. I mean, you have to sort of dispel some of these myths for me, like how, how are you get it? How did you get there?

Kathleen McLean 5:47
Katherine, first of all, I feel the same way about you. I love your energy, your enthusiasm and your excitement. And so I feel that that’s from something that really resonates with me that you have a joy for life. And I, your spirit is contagious. And I totally appreciate it. I’m humbled by your thoughts of me. And what a question how did I get there? I think it’s truly a process. It has been for me, I grew up and I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York, lived with my mother and my father. And I came from my mother’s a very hardworking person. And, and I loved my mother so much. They were immigrants from Haiti and my father as well. Though I grew up in a household where my father was physically verbally and emotionally abusive. And I had to really work through that I met my husband when I was 16 years old. But before that, my life I always always believed in God, pray to God went to church. And I always said, God, I want to have a nice husband and I want to have a nice life. And I used to play Caroline on film with my sister. We had imaginary people. And we played this game where we had one child and we shared her it was Kathy so I feel like Karolina Vilma took us to an imaginary place. Because that wasn’t our story at home. It was not it felt like my sister, I want eggshells, depending on how my father his mood, or his spirit or his energy. I mean, one of the big things he did that really broke my spirit is when I was in school, and I would do math with him, and I couldn’t understand it. And he would literally every time I got something wrong, he would hit me on the head and call me dummy. So I came from a place where you call me dummy, but then be like, Oh, you’re so pretty. And so I got this message, you know, and my sister is the smart one. That’s what he would say, and I’m the dumb one. And so those things definitely affected me. And I realized that I was like, You know what I don’t want and my mother was also abused physically, verbally and emotionally. And I didn’t want that for my life. So I’ve been praying and praying, I said, God, I want the Brady Bunch life. And so the Brady Bunch is a show that I grew up watching and I was like, Oh my gosh, look at Marsha. She was the older sister and Carol and Tom and I was like, This is the life I want. And I met Mark. My sister was at Erasmus high school with my my brother in love now Wayne marks brother and then that’s where we met Richie, who is known as Shaggy and so my sister. Keisha. Wait,

Catherine Hover 8:29
wait, whoa, whoa, back it up. You mean Shaggy? The musician Shaggy?

Kathleen McLean 8:34
Yes. So he was the best man at our wedding. But he was marks like they mark and him. Were like best friends. He told us we should get connected. So my husband who was originally born and raised in London, he literally came here when he was 18 years old. And I met him soon after, I talked to mark on the phone for one week, and I loved his British accent. And then I met him a week later, we were a blind date. We met on Flatbush Avenue and McDonald’s. I know McDonald’s and I remember because so in Haitian culture, the common thing is to greet someone with a kiss. And so when I saw Mark, and I met him, Donald says like, Oh, hi. And so I put my cheek in front of his face to kiss me. And he was looking at me like, What? British culture I’m from French culture. So there was a constant, it was like, Whoa, what is going on here? And he did kiss my cheek. And so I think where I am today, has a lot to do with my pain has a lot to do with my struggle, and has a lot to do with God really, who I am so grateful and thankful for, for bringing Mark into my life and me. So Katherine, you know, I was a bed wetter until I was 16 years old. And as I look back, I was like, you know, I stopped wetting the bed when I met Mark. And so I know that At bedwetting is part of the why I think it was I was just nervous. I had just I was constantly nervous because I lived in an environment that was unpredictable. And I didn’t know what was going to happen. And so I think that was my way of releasing stress.

Catherine Hover 10:20
Wow. That is some crazy miraculous shit for lack of better words. Honestly, like, I don’t know, like, because I guess some people, you know, like, need the hard, hard, honest facts, right, and you can’t talk woowoo and you can’t talk your reality and God and I think it’s tough for me to because I was raised Catholic, if you need to speak to God, or you need to pray, you can do that, you know, but you don’t have to go perform it out in the world, if that makes any sense. So I was raised to be very skeptical. But then I was also raised to just have a strong faith in myself, you know, and I think that that’s where my faith really sort of shines through. And I think also like, growing up, I can say, I was not abused. I was not, you know, I had like a pretty ordinary upbringing. You know, I mean, my parents had arguments, just like any marriage that they still do. But I certainly felt like I wanted to be the best version of a mother and a wife that I could possibly be. It wasn’t until I moved to Saratoga Springs that I even really felt like the calling to do something on the career side or the business side. I think growing up, I just I really just that was the ultimate goal was to find the guy and get married and have his babies and let and let him take care of the rest. Right? So it wasn’t until I got out of that Southern culture of like, just be a missus, that I recognize that wait a minute, well, maybe I can have both of these worlds, right? I can have the career I can have the business, I can have the independence and still be an awesome partner and have the family that I always dreamed of. How dare I think that because it’s really hard. But like I said, when we first started, it’s just us, you are so authentically living out this like dream life that you created and cultivated for yourself. And a lot of it is in how you take action day in day out and how you live out these values. Yes,

Kathleen McLean 12:22
and it’s a co partner, right? I feel that my pilot is the Lord and I also, I was also raised Catholic, and I, when I got a bit older, I realized some of the things I was doing. You know, for me, I feel that it’s more of a relationship where when I was Catholic, and I know it varies, and it’s nuanced. So I don’t want to speak globally. For the Catholic faith, I can only speak from my own experience. It was more wrote for me in terms of that experience. But actually, when I was 23 years old, I accepted Jesus as my Savior. And that was when I started to have a relationship with God, where I have I talked to God, God talks back to me. And that’s through the Holy Spirit. And some people call it their gut, their conscious people have different words, depending on their faith or their philosophy. And for me, it’s the Holy Spirit that guides me and directs me and leads me in all things. And so that is where I feel that has helped me in terms of when I think about children. You know, I thought that was interesting what you talked about being growing up southern girl, that was your dream. And for me, I didn’t grow up with southern girl, but my cousin remembers me at 16 being like, I want to, like buying bridal books, because that was my thing. I wanted that dream wedding. And I said, Carlin if I ever do anything, you are going to be the emcee because she remembers clear as day about me walking around with the wedding. And I always wanted a baby like I wanted kids so badly. I wanted the Brady Bunch. So Catherine, I wanted six kids with Mark wouldn’t let me after number four, he’s like, are you are not having any work kids. I

Catherine Hover 14:09
was like, Oh, please. But you’re like you found a loophole, didn’t you? You have four kids, but you have adopted?

Kathleen McLean 14:17
Well, one of my children. I did adopt one of my kids. Yeah. And the RIA in terms of our marriage mark, and I’ve been together ever since I was 16 years old, and he was 18 years old. And so we did go for a walk one day, and I’ll never forget. I said, Mark, you know what I want to adopt? He said, So do I. And this is as teenagers were having this conversation. So when I was 35 years old, we were going to bed and he was 37. He’s like, hey, you know, I’m getting older. Are we doing this adoption thing? I said, Oh, absolutely. So I actually the next day went to vet fitness. Yeah, it’s called Gold’s Gym at the time, and I got on the Stairmaster and it said be an Albany County foster parent and then I became an Albany County foster parent and Then we went to the mat classes and then we, we got our son in. Then we adopted him. We have as foster parents and then we adopted him.

Catherine Hover 15:11
Oh my god, but do you feel like you must have felt the calling? I know you did. You were like this is this isn’t a calling?

Kathleen McLean 15:17
I love children, period. I can you

Catherine Hover 15:20
can, you can picture your life and your family without without that child.

Kathleen McLean 15:25
Yes. And I don’t tell people that he’s adopted. Usually I for one of my girlfriends just said, I can’t believe I didn’t know that about us. And she goes, I love that even more. Because one of the things I remember being at a hair salon one day, and this really stuck with me, there was a woman there who was talking to me, and she was a young woman. And she said, I’m adopted. And one thing I really hate is that my mother felt the need to tell everyone that I was adopted. And I feel that that’s something I don’t do. Because for me, I have four children, and there’s no differentiation, whether adopted or not adopted. They’re just my children.

Catherine Hover 16:03
Yeah, yeah. Well, now we know that it’s it’s best for it to be well known, right? At least for the children to know. Oh, you tell me because I don’t I don’t know. have any experience with that?

Kathleen McLean 16:14
Oh, no, he’s new. Like he was? Yeah. Because his his bio mom, you know, we knew her and everything. And she just wasn’t in a position that she could care for him. So we definitely everything’s very open. Yeah, we told him everything. Like we there were no secrets about, about, you know, why he came and all the things that surround his life. We were very open with it.

Catherine Hover 16:40
Yeah, that’s awesome. And okay, so I want to go back, obviously, you you had this, like calling and you’re a very determined woman writes, I get the sense that you get it, you get an idea in your head, or you get, you know, something comes through you and you’re like, we’re gonna make this happen. So can you share a time when you felt so called to do something and you got pushed back? You know, I can’t imagine you’ve always felt supported?

Kathleen McLean 17:05
Oh, my gosh, something I call to do and got pushback. Oh. So I think, have I gotten pushback? Well, I think with you know, starting my business, my sister again, played a role in that, because she gave me the book, The Power of focus by Les Hewitt, there are two other authors. And I believe that book had a transformational effect on my life. And my first business was a fitness business. And I was doing cardio kickboxing for mothers and daughters at light of the world church in Latham and my daughter was eight at the time. And I wanted to scale it up to make it a lot bigger. Though, as I look back, I realized a lot of the skills I needed, it was going to be a big lift, it was too heavy lift for me, at the time to do it. Then I started and the reason I started the McLean group is because of my my daughter, Danielle. And did I get I don’t feel like I got pushed back. And I have to really think about that. If it’s something comes to me later, I’ll definitely share. But I started my business because I again grew up with black and brown people in Brooklyn, New York. And when I went to college course, that was my first real experience with people that were white and had a white roommate. And you know, we were fine. I mean, it was a lot of conversations, a lot of questions they would ask me, and I would ask them, because they want to know why I didn’t wash my hair every day. And I would ask them questions, like, you know, why did they wash their hair every day? And at that time, one of the things that I didn’t notice my roommates did was they didn’t put lotion on and they would say, Why do you wear it so much lotion every day? And I was like, why don’t you wear lotion? So it was just crustacean. And I guess the other thing I would always ask this, I’m like, Why don’t you eat food? My roommates at the time. Several of them just didn’t eat. They only have cottage cheese. And I’m like, why don’t you and exercise incessantly and I was like, Well, why don’t you eat like food instead of cottage cheese. So those were those conversations were having and then when I came to all that, you know to Latham I moved to Latham. I noticed one day Danielle, who was six years old at the time came home and she pivoted right to the bathroom upstairs and took a yellow towel and put this yellow towel on her head and start to shake her hair around. And I was like, Oh my gosh, what’s happening and I was a stay at home mom for eight years. And I said Danielle, and she didn’t really even say anything. Danielle is not a talker. And what I realized at the time was Danielle was struggling with her racial identity development. And then I began to volunteer at the school. I went to the school. I brought books with black and brown people in them because I noticed at the school there was nothing that showed anything I was black or brown and my daughter was surrounded by white children surrounded by white teachers. And I realized she was struggling with her racial identity by expressing it with cutting the yellow towel on her head. And I came to the conclusion that if you don’t know who you are, you can never become who you can become. And that’s what brought me to my businesses, is Danielle struggling with her racial identity. Now, I thought, well, if Danielle struggling with her racial identity, how many other parents like me, have children who are struggling with their racial identity living in places that they don’t have a mirror of people that look like them. And that’s when I put her in certain programs like delta pearls with where there were a monthly activities with other little girls that look like her who also lived in the suburbs who did not have people that look like them. So I put her in all these different things to make sure she would have those experiences. And I think because the majority of people are white, US 60%, that it’s rare for white people to not have communities or places where they don’t have a support in terms of people looking like them. And going to the mall or looking at magazines and everything around them that’s positive, they can relate to or connect with, where, at times, that might not be the case. If you we live in certain parts of certain communities, we may be the only one or go to different meetings and be the only one. So

Catherine Hover 21:29
I would love for you to share your experience of of like, Why stay and how do you stay? Right? Because I would a lot of people don’t right people, people don’t like change. They don’t like evolution, they have fear, lots of fear base, I kind of want you to share your experience of like staying the course skin in order to bring about change and evolution. And that’s that’s that’s how we move forward together. We can’t get up and run when the thing when the going gets tough or things get a little challenging, right.

Kathleen McLean 21:58
So Catherine, I think that’s so that’s such a big question. I think it’s a very personal thing. The reality is people are people that I think that’s where we demystify people of color to white people to LGBTQIA plus people with disabilities. People are people irregardless of race, gender, sexuality, who they like who they love, their faith, their religion, their ethnicity, their their the way they think people are people. And so demystifying that I had this notion that this suburbs was this really friendly warming place, I envisioned that my next door neighbor’s children would be running into my house, and I wouldn’t be and my children were running into their house. That was not what I had this pie in the sky, belief and attitude. I’m not sure where I got it from probably from TV where I kind of thought, again, the Brady Bunch, where I saw those kinds of things. And I realized when I got to the suburbs, I’m like, Oh, this is definitely not what I thought. I mean, I, Catherine, I literally talked to everyone. I invited, you know, women that were white to house my house for lunch, and did do reach outs, and I did not it was not reciprocated. And when I look back, I have more children in that school district. And what do I have to show for it today is I have one girlfriend, from those that time who is white from that, except for that whole experience. If I could put myself as a white woman with the same exact look the same way have the same everything except my skin was white, I would have come away with 25 friends. And so I have to say, the reason is because of racism. I know that these women had jewelry parties, I know that they had you know Tupperware parties and all the things I was not invited or included. And so therefore, it was just a very interesting experience. And I was talking about it one day, and it almost brought tears to my eyes because I’m like, wow, I was not really included. I was somewhat accepted, but I wasn’t really included.

Catherine Hover 24:23
Right, right. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it’s so blatant, you know, and I think that that’s also the piece that is really shocking. A lot of the times when we hear these stories, and it’s like, how, how did you get through that? And also, how did they not see how blatantly obvious the racism was? And I hear this a lot to where people are like, Oh, well, you know, if you didn’t have the trauma if you didn’t have the challenges and you didn’t the hard times, if you didn’t have the racism, like would you be as adamant and passionate about the work that you’re doing. It’s it’s a difficult topic, right? It’s very sensitive and delicate. And people take sometimes that me like, oh, well, because you had to go through that because now look at you. I

Kathleen McLean 25:09
think about Fannie Lou Hamer, I think about me, me, me, Till’s mother, I think about the long legacy of so many of my ancestors who went through things. And I think, like Mamie, whose son Emmett Till was murdered, and then this body thrown in the Tallahassee river. And she pivoted her life to do this work. And I think so many black women would prefer to be doing something different. I think of arm Ahmad or Barry’s mother, Wanda, who has been pivoted into this work, because of the death of their children, so many of them have run in office because of the death of their family members. And I think that we do it, many of us because we know that we want to live and we want our children to live. So for me, this work is really life and death. This is not, it’s more than even passionate. It’s life and death, not only for my biological, physical children, but for your children and your grandchildren, and all children in the world of all races from children who are Indian, Native American, Black, Latino, Asian, biracial, multicultural. So this work for me is life and death. Because when, you know, thoughts are things and the way people think affects what they do, because people behave how they believe. And my job is to change their belief system, so they can behave differently. And when they behave differently, they can impact other people, especially now with the world of social media, those beliefs can go out into the world, and they those beliefs can be for good and for healing, and not for harm. And so I feel that my job is so critical. And so pivotal in that I am changing people’s mindsets. When you change someone’s mind you change how they behave. And so I feel such an honor to be in rooms when organizations hire the McLean group. And we get to be in spaces in places where we’re changing someone’s mindset. It can change a generations and generations and generations and generations, because when you have a new mindset, you have new behavior.

Catherine Hover 27:33
And isn’t that so exciting, that we can do that and we can change and we can change perspective. And, you know, I truly do believe that the more diverse your circle is, or a community is, the more powerful we are, the more we can learn about each other, like who wants to learn all the same stuff that you’ve been learning day in, day out, I want to learn new things, I want to be around different people, I want to have different experiences. And I think that the other piece of this too, is that it’s not just going to take one type of person to make that change. And it takes all of us we all have to be at the table. And I also believe the way we get there is through positivity and community building and bringing people together. Not the divisiveness that we see so much in media and news. And in general. You know, I just think that the world is so scary right now. And if I’m feeling that, you know, I think that’s another thing that I get well, like, if you think you’re scared, how scared Do you think I’ve been this whole time as a black woman or as a minority owned business? Or, you know, so I just think like, I don’t want to sound like ridiculous here. But it’s like, isn’t that a good thing that people are feeling the weight of it all right now and isn’t it a good thing that we can use that as momentum and motivation to work together and kick the ball up the field here instead of you know, a group of people not feeling any stress or not feeling any weight?

Kathleen McLean 29:03
Yeah. So I think at first, I liked the fact that you do bring people together. The other piece, I think that you said I want to just add to was how you felt excluded. And here you are a white woman. And so this capital region, I’ve talked to white people, Latino, black, Asian, all groups of people who have said the same exact thing, because they’ll meet people who like they went to shake her together or Shan and that’s their little group and they’re, they just want to stay in it. And they don’t want to, you know, expand they don’t even want to even if they’re white, they don’t want to expand to other white people either. And so there is that cultural thing sometimes that happens in some areas or some mindsets that people have, you know, that kind of a small mind mentality, right. So I thought about when you know when you’re saying that in terms of bringing people together and and with that common It how the world is so scary. We know there are things there is literally war in so many countries, not even only Israel, the Gaza Strip, Ukraine, Haiti, the list goes on and on and on. And what Martin Luther King said he said threat to injustice anywhere is a threat to injustice everywhere. And so what I’m hearing you say is that’s where we’re living right now. That we, the injustice is everywhere. It’s not only isolated in one place or another. And but I also wanted to add, I felt that what you felt when you came here was like, Okay, where are people? Like, where are the people? I mean, I went to Latham, why did I pick Latham? I just we bought our first house in Latham, we heard that the North County School District was a good school district. So our decision was solely based on a school district that would be good for our children. And so I know for me, co leading the Capital Region oppression of women of color with Angela Tatum, I felt like, okay, because what happens is, you know, black women, brown women, biracial women, multicultural women move into this area, and some of them come here with not a significant other a partner, or any a spouse, and they feel like an island. And they, you know, have these high level jobs working as attorneys and doctors and teachers and all sorts of professional roles. And they feel isolated and alone. And so I feel that that the cabbage from color is people refer them all the time. And it’s a group of professional women, we have 1000 in our group, and we have events like where we just had a luncheon, and about 70 women came to them. And we were talking about navigating toxic workplace culture. And so I understand why you create a palette. And so having that community to let people know they belong is so important. Because so many women like they’ve reached out to me, and they tell me, they’re like, Kathleen, oh my gosh, this experience I just had at work. And I just trained a whole bunch of people. And then they just promoted someone that else and they didn’t promote me. And so the cameras of color, it is this onboarding group onboard for life. Because everything we give people referrals, where they get their hair done, work and get their nails done, where can they go have a party where they can go eat, just an onboarding for the capital region, areas of their lives, you know, even doing zoom meetings, when people come here and there like, one woman said, she moved to a new area, and she had to have an abortion. And she said, she knew nobody, and she went through it all by herself. And I never want a woman to have to go through anything that difficult and not have anyone in the area to help them. And we also did a fund raiser with Teresa Moran, Gus and Kathy to, they were part of the WP O and we raised a significant 1000s of dollars. We paid for rent for people or assisted them with you know, when woman was like, you know, Kathleen, I’m getting ready to start a new job. And but everything’s confidential. Only people that know would be me, Angela and myself. And he’s like, I just need a stop gap to get my cover. And we’re like, okay, so we can send, you know, we can give everyone everything, we’ll send you 2000 that help you? And so it’s more it’s like this community of black and brown women who come together to really support each other someone puts in the group, Hey, I just can someone look at my resume. someone’s like, Yes, I got you, like three people look at their resume. Here. And other things have come out of that group. There’s a book club that’s come out of that group. And so it’s multiplying and continuing to grow in so many ways that I may not even know I kind of accidentally run into people be like, oh, you know what I did? I said, I met some what your group and now we work together, people have got jobs, because some of my friends will text me and say, Hey, Kathleen, I’m looking for someone and I’ll refer them and a lot of women have gotten jobs in that group as well. Yeah,

Catherine Hover 34:12
I mean, and that’s what it’s all about you you don’t know you need community until you do, right. And, you know, this happens that palette day in day out. It’s like you just don’t know you needed the support when you did and I’m like getting emotional. Okay, because I just got home from you know, Thanksgiving travel and it’s hard. It’s hard to come back to real life when you’re so far away from family and you know, I don’t know what I would do without this space. And I certainly it is very self serving because I need it in my life and I still need it in my life. So it’s not like you get to this level in your in your world or in your life in your career. And you don’t need the support. If anything, you need more of it. So yeah, I mean, I could talk to you forever. I love you so much. I love what you’re doing. You’re such a role model for me. No pressure, no pressure, okay, like, well, thank you so much. I love talking with you. I’m sad. I didn’t get to hug it out because I really wanted. I know that I needed a hug today, but I’m gonna have to get it elsewhere now. Say everyone, this week’s facepalm moment is a funny one. So earlier this week, we were at lunch, and someone thought that I was the nanny of all the kids. And I really was quite shocked, because it’s been a while since I’ve been mistaken as the babysitter, but I was totally flattered, and I appreciated it so much. But it made me think like, back in the day when I just had Posey I would also get mistaken as a nanny whenever I was downtown Saratoga Springs, and I would be so offended. I would be like, Oh my god, don’t they realize that this is my kid. I mean, she looks just like me. Why would people think that I’m the knee. I mean, that’s so offensive. But now 10 years later, I am not in the least offended. I am flattered. And I welcome anyone who wants to point out that I look like a 12 year old. I think it’s pretty amazing that I can still pass as a 12 year old. Now it doesn’t hurt or help the situation that I’m still wearing my senior sweater from high school class 2004 on a regular basis because it is the most comfortable sweater ever. And helps me to reminisce of the olden days. Anyway, thank you so much to the person who thought I was the nanny this week you made my day. Thank you for listening to this podcast. And if you want to connect with me slide into my DMs on Instagram. My handle is Catherine hoever

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